Thank you so much for this, so well said. I was weeping in an unmanly way at "there was nobody left to call him back to himself;" I know this feeling all too well. The other thing that patriarchy does is explain men's pain/confusion/longing by blaming women, or a woman, in one way or another, and that also leads to violence. I'm looking forward to the conversations.
Scott, thank you so much for the kind words and spending time here with these paradigms. I am so grateful. Thank you for sharing the feelings that this brought up, we only weep in the human way around here. 💜 Sending love as you sit with these feelings.
Yes - what a great add! Patriarchy absolutely shifts blame to women! I personally see it as an intentional illusion--if men never question who is to blame for the ways in which they truly feel--then we all keep playing the 'game' that none of us benefit from. What do you think? I'd love to hear your thoughts here!
They will keep playing the game, yes, and ultimately, inevitably losing and literally giving up. RW Connell called this aspired-to masculinity 'hegemonic masculinity,' a mouthful label which has lost its original meaning (you can't really put a finger on HM, as it's hegemonic and thus shape-shifty!). In any case, there's an ideal most men aspire to they can't live up to (often covertly, even to themselves), and this ideal is pretty inhumane to everyone involved. Anyway, I'd say it all leads to bullies, abusers, and incels whose anger at women and 'betas' makes its own logical sense in patriarchy. I wouldn't say this gives anyone a free pass, but to see such anger as only an individual problem misses all the pain you outline in this post. It might even keep them alive, because if you can blame someone else, you might not blame yourself so much.
Shifting blame as a survival tactic is so heart-wrenching, but makes so much sense. Just wow. Thank you for expanding here, Scott. To think so many men are internally fighting this struggle of what they aren't.. just devastating.
I'm just discovering your Substack through Make Men Emotional Again, and this post is brilliant. I didn't know about the seven norms, and it's very interesting to have such a simple but true framework.
I feel I haven't been as pressured into this than most (also I'm french so it's expressed differently). I mean I've masked quite a bit (also it's mixed with masking from being on the spectrum), but I never thought that restrictive emotionality was actually good for example, I just sometimes pretended.
Although it's interesting to see I've got a couple of norms left.
I've thought quite a bit about what is healthy masculinity, and I've come to the conclusion that I couldn't find a single quality that I'd appreciate in myself or another man, and that I wouldn't in a woman. So basically I've concluded that healthy masculinity was just being a good person. Which feels like a much clearer compass to me !
"So basically I've concluded that healthy masculinity was just being a good person." YES! I love this so much. Patriarchal gender norms have done a number on our ability to recognize that we are all just humans, and to express any emotion is to express human emotion, not gendered emotion! Thank you so much for saying and adding this, it is so important.
These norms were absolutely laid out and geared towards American men, as both bell hooks and Robert Levant were American, so I am grateful for you adding nuance here, as I'm certain there will be for some differences for folks outside of these (not so united) States. Isn't it wild how our inner selves can know that a behavior isn't serving us, yet we feel so compelled to participate? I'm currently reading Kate Manne's Entitled, and there is a chapter on a research project where folks were commanded to electrocute someone being interviewed by an authority figure (all set up, no harm was actually perpetuated), and though they all admitted their inner selves didn't want to participate, most of them felt compelled to because of the 'authority figure.' Patriarchy has done such a number on all of us and the idea of 'free-will.'
Sending love as you navigate masculinity on the human level. Thank you for spending your time here and thank you for adding your voice to the conversation, it is much appreciated.
I do believe the seven norms are the same in France, they're just expressed in a different way. We don't routinely carry weapons for example, and even with cars it's more geared towards sport and luxury cars than pickup trucks (our streets are way too small for that). But overall it applies.
Indeed we feel compelled to participate even when that feels wrong, but I think it's also because there's often an immediate reward (which depends on crowds, but still), mainly from other men, but also sometimes from women. I think in the end people generally just try and get the best out of life, and will rely on what seems to work (without necessarily thinking about broader long term consequences on their mental health and wellbeing).
I'm 35 now and I'm really glad to see the discourse is evolving, and so the social rewards are too.
Smoking and drinking was considered cool when I was 20, now it's kinda frowned upon with Gen Z (at least the ones I know).
Same with being connected to your emotions : I've just watched Inside Out 2 with my niece and nephew, and they're lucky to see that kind of discourse in pop culture.
Same with consent : I distinctly remember straight up asking before kissing a girl being a turn off for them 10-15 years ago. There are other ways to ask of course, but today it's way more common practice.
And about the research project, it's the Milgram experiment, right ? Wild how people can be influenced by authority. I believe it's been replicated several times more recently with similar findings.
You are a rock star my friend. I'm so glad you are writing this and have invited men into conversation about how patriarchy harms all of us so deeply. Cannot wait to read the forthcoming conversations share them with others willing to listen and reflect on how to stop operating within these tropes we've been handed. 💜
I am so, so grateful to have you in my corner, Freya! Thank you! It is just unfathomable that so many humans have existed in pain from patriarchal trauma and yet we still participate.
Honored to be in community with such phenomenal humans working towards a better future while ensuring the women of the past aren’t lost to us. 💜💜
Thank you, thank you, thank you for providing a space to talk about these issues and for leading the way with a piece that is scholarly, human, and accessible. The is so well done - you're a wonder! And I'm delighted that my piece about my dad found its way into your thought process. Really so honored. 🤗💕
Was struggling connecting two thoughts and then you published your Father’s Day piece and there it was. I appreciate you so much, Tara! Thank you for getting the brain going, and thank you for being so supportive!
Looking forward to these upcoming months and the conversation you will be holding with these men. This work is important and transformative. The bit about firearms really resonated with me. I’m in the south now, and everyone has one. And naturally, now, I believe I have to have one as well because I have so much to lose. But the stats you quote around how they often lead to self harm have me questioning it. Thank you for your work! Always giving me something to think about.
Marc, I am so very grateful for you, your voice, your support, and your paradigms! In Frederick Joseph's new poetry collection around Black boyhood titled We Alive, Beloved, he references that suicide is now the third leading cause of death among young Black men ages 19-24, and diving into that data is as heartbreaking as you would imagine. One study highlighted that "when Black men were exposed to childhood adversity, they may develop an internal understanding of the world as somewhere they are devalued.” Devalued. It is high time we change the media landscape and I am so honored to be in community with you and the countless incredible folks pushing back against this harmful narrative. (As an aside, I highly recommend We Alive, Beloved!! My gosh, the beauty and the heartbreak within Frederick's words.)
Thank you for sharing your feelings around gun ownership. It is so normalized here in the south, as a Floridian, it is just an everyday reality that a truck will drive by with a family of firearms or a 'gunshine state' sticker. When the ethos of an area revolves around a weapon of harm, it permeates everything, seemingly becoming unavoidable. I understand that draw all to well. I appreciate you spending your precious time here!!! Thank you.
Thank you so much for this, so well said. I was weeping in an unmanly way at "there was nobody left to call him back to himself;" I know this feeling all too well. The other thing that patriarchy does is explain men's pain/confusion/longing by blaming women, or a woman, in one way or another, and that also leads to violence. I'm looking forward to the conversations.
Scott, thank you so much for the kind words and spending time here with these paradigms. I am so grateful. Thank you for sharing the feelings that this brought up, we only weep in the human way around here. 💜 Sending love as you sit with these feelings.
Yes - what a great add! Patriarchy absolutely shifts blame to women! I personally see it as an intentional illusion--if men never question who is to blame for the ways in which they truly feel--then we all keep playing the 'game' that none of us benefit from. What do you think? I'd love to hear your thoughts here!
Thank you for being a part of the conversation!
They will keep playing the game, yes, and ultimately, inevitably losing and literally giving up. RW Connell called this aspired-to masculinity 'hegemonic masculinity,' a mouthful label which has lost its original meaning (you can't really put a finger on HM, as it's hegemonic and thus shape-shifty!). In any case, there's an ideal most men aspire to they can't live up to (often covertly, even to themselves), and this ideal is pretty inhumane to everyone involved. Anyway, I'd say it all leads to bullies, abusers, and incels whose anger at women and 'betas' makes its own logical sense in patriarchy. I wouldn't say this gives anyone a free pass, but to see such anger as only an individual problem misses all the pain you outline in this post. It might even keep them alive, because if you can blame someone else, you might not blame yourself so much.
Shifting blame as a survival tactic is so heart-wrenching, but makes so much sense. Just wow. Thank you for expanding here, Scott. To think so many men are internally fighting this struggle of what they aren't.. just devastating.
I'm so honored to be asked to contribute to this series.
I am so grateful for you, John! Thank you!!
I'm just discovering your Substack through Make Men Emotional Again, and this post is brilliant. I didn't know about the seven norms, and it's very interesting to have such a simple but true framework.
I feel I haven't been as pressured into this than most (also I'm french so it's expressed differently). I mean I've masked quite a bit (also it's mixed with masking from being on the spectrum), but I never thought that restrictive emotionality was actually good for example, I just sometimes pretended.
Although it's interesting to see I've got a couple of norms left.
I've thought quite a bit about what is healthy masculinity, and I've come to the conclusion that I couldn't find a single quality that I'd appreciate in myself or another man, and that I wouldn't in a woman. So basically I've concluded that healthy masculinity was just being a good person. Which feels like a much clearer compass to me !
"So basically I've concluded that healthy masculinity was just being a good person." YES! I love this so much. Patriarchal gender norms have done a number on our ability to recognize that we are all just humans, and to express any emotion is to express human emotion, not gendered emotion! Thank you so much for saying and adding this, it is so important.
These norms were absolutely laid out and geared towards American men, as both bell hooks and Robert Levant were American, so I am grateful for you adding nuance here, as I'm certain there will be for some differences for folks outside of these (not so united) States. Isn't it wild how our inner selves can know that a behavior isn't serving us, yet we feel so compelled to participate? I'm currently reading Kate Manne's Entitled, and there is a chapter on a research project where folks were commanded to electrocute someone being interviewed by an authority figure (all set up, no harm was actually perpetuated), and though they all admitted their inner selves didn't want to participate, most of them felt compelled to because of the 'authority figure.' Patriarchy has done such a number on all of us and the idea of 'free-will.'
Sending love as you navigate masculinity on the human level. Thank you for spending your time here and thank you for adding your voice to the conversation, it is much appreciated.
Thanks for your answer ! :)
I do believe the seven norms are the same in France, they're just expressed in a different way. We don't routinely carry weapons for example, and even with cars it's more geared towards sport and luxury cars than pickup trucks (our streets are way too small for that). But overall it applies.
Indeed we feel compelled to participate even when that feels wrong, but I think it's also because there's often an immediate reward (which depends on crowds, but still), mainly from other men, but also sometimes from women. I think in the end people generally just try and get the best out of life, and will rely on what seems to work (without necessarily thinking about broader long term consequences on their mental health and wellbeing).
I'm 35 now and I'm really glad to see the discourse is evolving, and so the social rewards are too.
Smoking and drinking was considered cool when I was 20, now it's kinda frowned upon with Gen Z (at least the ones I know).
Same with being connected to your emotions : I've just watched Inside Out 2 with my niece and nephew, and they're lucky to see that kind of discourse in pop culture.
Same with consent : I distinctly remember straight up asking before kissing a girl being a turn off for them 10-15 years ago. There are other ways to ask of course, but today it's way more common practice.
And about the research project, it's the Milgram experiment, right ? Wild how people can be influenced by authority. I believe it's been replicated several times more recently with similar findings.
You are a rock star my friend. I'm so glad you are writing this and have invited men into conversation about how patriarchy harms all of us so deeply. Cannot wait to read the forthcoming conversations share them with others willing to listen and reflect on how to stop operating within these tropes we've been handed. 💜
I am so, so grateful to have you in my corner, Freya! Thank you! It is just unfathomable that so many humans have existed in pain from patriarchal trauma and yet we still participate.
Honored to be in community with such phenomenal humans working towards a better future while ensuring the women of the past aren’t lost to us. 💜💜
💜
Thank you, thank you, thank you for providing a space to talk about these issues and for leading the way with a piece that is scholarly, human, and accessible. The is so well done - you're a wonder! And I'm delighted that my piece about my dad found its way into your thought process. Really so honored. 🤗💕
Was struggling connecting two thoughts and then you published your Father’s Day piece and there it was. I appreciate you so much, Tara! Thank you for getting the brain going, and thank you for being so supportive!
Such a strong piece. Thank you
Thank you for spending time with it. 💜
Thank you for inviting me to be a part of this conversation, and I deeply appreciate your intro!
I am so honored you’re on board, Alex! Thank you for showing up in this way and allowing us to learn too, I am so grateful.
Looking forward to these upcoming months and the conversation you will be holding with these men. This work is important and transformative. The bit about firearms really resonated with me. I’m in the south now, and everyone has one. And naturally, now, I believe I have to have one as well because I have so much to lose. But the stats you quote around how they often lead to self harm have me questioning it. Thank you for your work! Always giving me something to think about.
Marc, I am so very grateful for you, your voice, your support, and your paradigms! In Frederick Joseph's new poetry collection around Black boyhood titled We Alive, Beloved, he references that suicide is now the third leading cause of death among young Black men ages 19-24, and diving into that data is as heartbreaking as you would imagine. One study highlighted that "when Black men were exposed to childhood adversity, they may develop an internal understanding of the world as somewhere they are devalued.” Devalued. It is high time we change the media landscape and I am so honored to be in community with you and the countless incredible folks pushing back against this harmful narrative. (As an aside, I highly recommend We Alive, Beloved!! My gosh, the beauty and the heartbreak within Frederick's words.)
Thank you for sharing your feelings around gun ownership. It is so normalized here in the south, as a Floridian, it is just an everyday reality that a truck will drive by with a family of firearms or a 'gunshine state' sticker. When the ethos of an area revolves around a weapon of harm, it permeates everything, seemingly becoming unavoidable. I understand that draw all to well. I appreciate you spending your precious time here!!! Thank you.